Voices of the Vigilant EP03 | Cyber Resiliency - Strategy Meets Security: How Authenticity Drives Strategic Partnerships
In This Episode
This episode, featuring Rachel Arnold, explores how authenticity transforms work environments.
As Rachel puts it, "How awful to spend 40+ hours a week pretending to be someone else."
By bringing her whole self to professional interactions—sharing her passion for plants, discussing family challenges, and expressing genuine care for clients—she creates relationships that transcend typical business boundaries.
This authenticity doesn't diminish professionalism; it enhances it by building deeper trust.
Most compelling is the discussion about workplace culture and leadership. Toxic environments stem from leaders who themselves are suffering but lack self-awareness to address their pain constructively. By contrast, when leaders demonstrate vulnerability, admit mistakes, and support teams through professional and personal challenges, everyone thrives.
These supportive environments don't just benefit employees—they directly translate to better client service and business success.
Tune into the audio version of this episode by clicking the player below:
Tune into the video version of this episode by clicking the YouTube player below:
VIDEO: Voices of the Vigilant EP03
“Cyber Resiliency - Strategy Meets Security: How Authenticity Drives Strategic Partnerships” with Rachel Arnold, Director of Strategic Partnerships at SecureNation
About the Guest
Rachel Arnold is a neurodiverse professional with multi-industry expertise in leadership, strategic partnerships, and business operations.
As the Director of Strategic Partnerships at SecureNation, Rachel focuses on fostering meaningful, transparent client and partner relationships built on trust and integrity.
Her role involves aligning stakeholders to achieve shared objectives while ensuring customer satisfaction and long-term success.
Previously, Rachel served as Director of Business Operations and Strategy at Activision Blizzard, where she developed a comprehensive vendor management program and oversaw key information security initiatives. Her ability to evaluate, negotiate, and manage complex contracts ensured risk mitigation and supported the organization through periods of growth and transformation.
Rachel's passion for empowering others extends beyond her corporate roles. As a Marketing Director for ISACA Baton Rouge, she worked to advance education in information security and audit. She has also contributed as an Advisory Board Member for the EBR Career & Technical Education Center, helping to prepare students for careers in high-demand industries.
An advocate for thought leadership, Rachel co-hosts The Coffee Table Talks, a live-stream series exploring the cybersecurity industry's evolving landscape. Her work reflects a deep commitment to innovation, collaboration, and the development of future leaders in technology.
Full Episode Transcript
Jess Vachon: 0:32
Hello and welcome to another episode of Voices of the Vigilant, a Vigilant Violet podcast. My guest today is Rachel Arnold, director of Strategic Partnerships at Secure Nation. Rachel, welcome.
Rachel Arnold: 0:47
Thank you so much. This is going to be, we were talking about it in the little pre-show thing that we were doing, that this is going to be a very, oh, "how the turns table, if you guys know that joke from The Office.
Jess Vachon: 1:00
Anyway, that might just be me. No, we all love The Office, anyway, that might be just me.
Rachel Arnold: 1:06
Yeah, no, we all love The Office, because we just I. I have a live stream that I do. That's called The Coffee Table Talks. Yes, you were a guest there, um, and I do that on a weekly basis, and now I'm a guest on your show. I'm ,I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm like happy dance, happy dance.
Jess Vachon: 1:24
Only people on the video are going to see our hands in the air. The rest of you are going to have to picture it.
Rachel Arnold: 1:31
It's going to be a lot of fun, so buckle up. We're going to talk about me a lot.
Jess Vachon: 1:39
So let's start. What does the Director of Strategic Partnerships do?
Rachel Arnold: 1:45
So that is the corporate jargony title for the human API. It's the one that we can find that fit the best.
Jess Vachon: 1:52
Okay.
Rachel Arnold: 1:54
Throughout my career in cybersecurity. Specifically, I've come up through these conversations with C-suite directors, managers you know the analysts, the engineers, right? And my brain is wired in a specific way where I start to notice patterns across these conversations and it could be things like you know, these engineers all seem to enjoy playing D&D, right? Or these analysts are all working on the same problem whenever it comes to automating how their alerts are coming in right or tailoring those alerts, or these CISOs all seem to feel very isolated on their own islands. They should be introduced to each other. They should have a friendly roundtable once a week, maybe, something I can start and then very carefully peel out of and they can just keep it.
Rachel Arnold: 2:53
That's the Human API aspect of connecting people together, which also marries into the director of strategic partnerships role whenever those same elements that I find in human conversations also come out of product strategy, right. Or how a tech stack should actually stack up, how integration should work, things like that to help strategize those sorts of things into a really robust cybersecurity program for the clients that I serve, as well as being able to leverage those relationships in a way to negotiate or get some add-ons maybe that are really necessary or to take advantage of continued education and upskilling for those cybersecurity teams that are going to be using those products. So as more cybersecurity people come on to my client's team, they automatically have a piece of their onboarding that gives them in-depth, very personalized training on how to use the tools that are already in place. And that's the difference between just putting products in place and selling and being a strategic seller of cybersecurity products and professional services.
Jess Vachon: 4:11
Wow, that's such an important point, I think, with so many relationships that we encounter in the professional space in cybersecurity. It's someone wants to sell you a product or someone wants to sell you a service, but not a lot of companies do very well at blending those pieces. And what's even more interesting about what you just explained is you're not only selling the service and the product, but you're connecting people with the same types of issues or the same types of challenges and giving them an opportunity to talk and network amongst themselves, and that brings that much more success to the table right? I love that you call it the human API, because in your description I can see that. What a great description of what you do. Right, and I would imagine, at the end of the day, the customers for Secure Nation walk away and they feel like they got more than just a product, more than just a spot solution. They get a holistic program that is going to help them be successful over the long term. Is that an accurate reflection of the work?
Rachel Arnold: 5:21
It is. It is, and that I mean even just the approach that we have, as providing these services or assisting our clients in this way is strategic in itself. Because I don't want to. We're a smaller company, okay, there's only a handful of us, which means that every minute and every second counts. Even that much more, right? So if I spend I don't know let's say, 10 hours working this week on a project with a client, right, I cannot invest 10 hours of that time with that client and then have them not renew next year because of buyer's remorse, because it didn't fit correctly, because the integration fell apart, because onboarding sucks, because, right, Because, because, because it has to be seamless, it has to be done. Right, because I don't have the time to go back and fix it, and they don't either, and they don't want to.
Rachel Arnold: 6:27
They want to put something in place that's going to stand the test of time, have the longevity involved, and not something that's going to fall to the wayside because of you know, maybe they're a great company and they promote very quickly out of you know, the, the people that are actually managing these tools. Well, now you've got new people coming in. What if they don't understand that tool? Right, you want them to be able to wield it just as well as the person before and not put all of the weight of that training on the individual that was there previously. Right, they have things to look forward to, like their next role. They need to train for that role instead of going back and doing this other stuff. Whenever there are some wonderful vendor partners out there that add that will totally do these things for free, because they also want you to love their product and stick with it and be able to fine tune it so that it fits perfectly, and that's kind of the idea and the mission behind making sure it's done right the first time.
Jess Vachon: 7:29
You use the term. I think it was vendor relationships, I use the term partnerships and for most of my career, when I look at these value-added resellers, I hate to use that term, but I will for the sake of the discussion, when I do business with them, I don't want to just buy one product, but I will for the sake of the discussion when I do business with them. I don't want to just buy one product. I need to establish a trust relationship at the beginning. I need to know that you're in it for more than just that spot sale, and I look at these partners as an extension of my team. Many of us in information security and compliance have limited size teams.
Rachel Arnold: 8:08
Right.
Jess Vachon: 8:08
And thus we have limited capabilities to fulfill all the needs of our organization. So these partnerships are supremely important. I don't want to do a lot of partnership churn because that means I have to spend the 10 or 20 hours on the phone or going to lunch or having long conversations to explain what the business is doing, what our goals are, what's important to the organization, what our buying cycles look like. I want that all established so I have a long-term partnership. I want partners bringing stuff to the table that have value and meaning to me and the company that I'm working for.
Jess Vachon: 8:48
So, this Human API element is, I mean, it's excellent. And when you're a smaller firm, a boutique firm and I don't want to classify Secure Nation as one, but it's very important that that relationship is built and maintained and I like the fact that as a team may transition, that you're covering that part, that aspect as well, so there's no drop off. What do you hear from the customers that you build these relationships with? I mean, they must give you some feedback on the relationship they have with you.
Rachel Arnold: 9:24
Well, and it's not just given right, I ask for it continuously, on every step of the way, especially built. So, for example, we just got back from and when I say we, I mean I, I just got, I just realized I was, it was just me. I just got back from Cactus Con a few weeks ago. That was in Mesa, arizona, which is part of Phoenix. I didn't know that when I went there, but hey, learn something new every day. And we got to hang out with a client that was prospective client kind of situation, someone I really liked, and I get to. I get to pick out my own clients. I'm so spoiled. So every day I go to work, I work with people that either are my best friends or on their way to being my best friends. And these are the kind of people that if they lived near me, I would invite them to my kids birthday parties. They probably would say no, thank you, but you know what I mean. Kind of situation like they would. They would 100% be the folks I would invite over on the weekend to have a you know backyard barbecue. Be the folks I would invite over on the weekend to have a you know backyard barbecue. But anyhow, we picked up a new client and and a part of that process, especially in the beginning, for for me personally is ensuring every step of the way that the experience is tailored to something that they find valuable, right, and it's it's down to the nitpicky stuff at first where I'm like which, which channels are your preferred communication channels? Do you prefer email, do you prefer text, do you prefer signal messaging? Do you prefer a phone call? Like, how would you like for this communication style to go? And if they're like, no, not sure, right, I'll try it out in a couple of different ways, usually going to email first, but if they notice and I noticed that I need feedback from them on, you know, let's set up this schedule or demo or anything like that, then I'll start kind of pinging them a little bit on text, you know, see what's up, and then I set that and move forward with it. So, and it's also something that, like, I just sent out a couple of summaries. I do those on again. According to, however, it is that our clients want to do that. So sometimes it's frequently Mondays and Wednesdays for some reason, but one of the ones that I sent out to the new client was on a Wednesday, and I made sure that at the end of the summary, once they received it, that I put a note. If there are any adjustments or anything you'd like to change see more of or less of in this summary on where we stand with all these projects, please let me know it. Just, I got lucky and they happen to love it, so that worked out really nice.
Rachel Arnold: 12:07
But I hate long emails. Right, I absolutely hate long emails. We're helping the B-Sides NOLA organizers on board maybe a few more vendors to sponsor the event, right, and you know how important B-sides are. Right, they're great for just community learning, networking, having some really great interesting research topics. I like the B-sides so much because they feel, I mean, vendors are important. Right, I'm in charge of vendor relationships. Like that's my thing. That's one of my passions is kind of having this weird counseling ability between clients and their vendors, but I really just I sit through demos and sales all day long in my job which is great.
Rachel Arnold: 13:04
My brain is ready to learn those technologies, but when I go to conference, I wanna see something dynamic and surprising and exciting and I wanna learn whatever it is that somebody's been working on for a year, building, you know, out on their GitHub, like, or some new way to automate something, or a new way that there's, you know, something can be attacked, or just anything like that. Those are the kind of talks that I really enjoy going to. Those are my favorites, and if I've never seen that speaker before, those are the ones're very organized people, okay, and they have a spreadsheet, and I don't like spreadsheets, but anyway, they have a spreadsheet and the first thing I did was threw that spreadsheet out and made my own. Uh, it's terrible, right, it's terrible. That's mean I should have worked with theirs.
Jess Vachon: 14:19
Someone who doesn't like spreadsheets but then made their own spreadsheet.
Rachel Arnold: 14:22
Okay. Well, the thing is, is that that's their preferred communication style? I got to get along, that's right, right, if that's how, if that's how they're going to ingest this information, then it's important for me to fit into that a little bit right To, to adjust my communication style so that it is fitting for the people I'm serving, and I do that frequently from one thing to another. It doesn't matter what it is If it's, you know, doing something, volunteer style like this.
Rachel Arnold: 14:56
Oh, man, speaking of volunteer, I just got brought in to be a board member for my local ISACA chapter. Again, congratulations, thanks, thanks, and I say it like that because I wasn't aware that that was what was going to happen and I went back through the email threads and it still is not clear. They asked me to moderate an event that's coming up in our local area and I was really excited. Of course, I'd love to help. I'd love to help you out. Right, it's like soccer, you guys do great things. I got to this board meeting and they were like everybody meet our newest board member, rachel, and I was like you, sneaky peeps.
Jess Vachon: 15:41
I think the term is "voluntold.
Rachel Arnold: 15:44
You sneaky peeps, but I'm 100% on it. And they've got, like you know, a huge group text. I'm not a fan of group text but I group text. Now you know you got to go to where the people are, Go to where you can help and adjust your communication style accordingly.
Jess Vachon: 16:02
Well, that's critical. I mean you've added so much here. I'm going to start with that communication piece, right? Because I was asked the other day by some team members like how, what is one of the soft skills that you use? And I said it's it's communication, but it's it's differentiated communication, which, for those who don't know how that term differentiated factors in it's actually what you said meeting people where they're at. If they're texters, you text them. If they're emailers, you email them. If they're voice people, you get on a Teams call or you pick up the phone and you call them and you continue to do that. And if they're not understanding, in one format, right. So let's say you respond in an email and they're just not getting it, then you, you pick up the phone because they need a different way of receiving your message. So it's great that you're attuned to what people desire in order to achieve a level of satisfaction in their interactions with you, right?
Rachel Arnold: 16:58
Right. Well, I'm a people pleaser, probably for really horrific childhood trauma reasons, but I've embraced it as an adult as I cope and heal, just like most of us right, and I get the most satisfaction out of a good customer experience. I really do, and it's been that way across the different industries that I've worked in. Right, I've not always been in cybersecurity. I got here as a midlife crisis. I don't know what it was, but that's how I got here was.
Rachel Arnold: 17:36
You know, in my early thirties some things changed so I changed right, I went, I adjusted, moved on and really seeing the joy that I can bring to someone and I know that sounds so cliche, I really do but walking away from an interaction with another human being and knowing that I have somehow improved or brought them a little more hope or made their day a little nicer, makes me feel great, like that is the greatest hit of dopamine and I. It might be selfish. I guess, if you look at it that way, that the only reason I'm nice to other people is so that I feel nice about myself.
Jess Vachon: 18:22
I bet if I push you on that, that's not why. It's because I think, because you want to make a difference and you are making a difference and people see that in you. That's why you're being asked to do so much in the community, like B-Sides or ISACA. It's because it's authentic what you're giving. It's not to get something back. It's okay if we get the gift of feeling good because we do it, but you're giving first right.
Rachel Arnold: 18:49
Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't get. You're right, I don't get anything else other than that there's not a lot else other like it, just it's nice. And I, especially, am very careful whenever it comes to like my client interactions, because the reason I'm working with them is because I like them so much and I don't want them to stop working with me Because it's real hard to find people I like that much.
Jess Vachon: 19:17
That's fair.
Rachel Arnold: 19:19
Not everybody is. I'm not everybody's cup of tea and not right Like that's magic when that happens, whenever you know you've got those, those friends that you enjoy seeing for years and years and years.
Jess Vachon: 19:31
That's true, you know. I think everyone thinks ,everyone who's not in the InfoSec community, thinks we are all just best friends and pals, I mean. But there's, it's just like every other group. There's people that you like and there's people that you know. Yeah, you're great, you're knowledgeable. We're just not compatible.
Rachel Arnold: 19:54
Those are the people that I'm always happy to read their write-ups or or watch their, their talk, or, you know, support them in other ways. Yeah, I'm not inviting you to dinner, you know what I mean.
Jess Vachon: 20:07
Like, I'm sure there's other people in the community that feel the same way about me and that goes across different communities. Right, and that's one of the things we think we as people need to be cognizant of is that don't box us all up, because none of us fits in one box and none of us wants to be in one box. So finding your people wherever they are is important, and supporting them in the way that you do is important. That's what builds community. That's what changes the culture of society.
Jess Vachon: 20:41
So there's a philosophy in Buddhism that we're all a wave, but we're all part of the ocean. So in your way you're talking about, you know, sometimes seeing yourself as a wave, but you're part of the ocean and you, you are part of the energy of the ocean and you don't stand alone and the ocean doesn't stand without you. So I'm going off a little tangent here, but I think it's important that when you give of yourself, it spreads beyond where you think it spreads. And in the way that you're doing it, both professionally and personally, it's beautiful. It's a good blending of who you are and being authentic, which I think, at the end of the day, we are all striving to be authentic and accepted. So it's great how open you are with people, regardless of them being clients or friends in the professional community.
Rachel Arnold: 21:38
One of the things I've noticed that a lot of people struggle and I struggled with it too community. One of the things I've noticed that a lot of people struggle and I struggled with it too was you hear this well, for a good work-life balance, right, there should be a separation between your personal and your professional, which I still feel is true in a lot of ways, but you have to adjust how you apply that so that you do show up genuinely every day to whatever your nine to five is right. Um, for example, I've known a lot of folks that have burnt out because they blurred that line between professional and personal and they're up, you know, still answering Slack and teams and email and, um, you know different professional social media type things at two, three o'clock in the morning and you're like you need to slow down, it's gonna. You're gonna notice this is gonna hurt soon, your brain's gonna explode. Or you're gonna look up one day and you're gonna be like I don't know who I am Without I mean for our purposes, without cybersecurity.
Rachel Arnold: 22:44
I don't know what I like, I don't, I have no idea, I have no hobbies right, or I have no outside interest. And what's great is I can always. I can always see the people that have struggled and then come out of it because they seem to have the collection of hobbies that are the most non-tech at all. I know a president of a cybersecurity company did blacksmithing on the weekends.
Rachel Arnold: 23:19
I was like so you have like a forge in your backyard. They were like absolutely, I do, and I built the forge myself. That's like, that's so cool. Please send pictures, right, I know I see some other folks that do crocheting, or I like plants. How non-technical can you get? Look behind me for those of you who aren't on video or I like plants.
Jess Vachon: 23:43
How non-technical can you get? Look behind me, for those of you who aren't on video, my office is full of plants. My whole house is full of plants. My whole side business is all about a plant theme that goes along with cybersecurity. So yeah, I love plants.
Rachel Arnold: 23:57
Yes.
Jess Vachon: 24:28
Yeah, for me that it's. It's about getting back to the basics. That's why I love to hike, like I can go on a hike that's supposed to be, I don't know, let's say, an hour to do it, and it will take me two or three hours, because I am like playing with the plants and going off the trail a little bit, just a little bit people right like say safety first.
Jess Vachon: 24:49
But uh, I have, but I'm bringing my to watch the the hawks and the eagles, and I'll be quietly standing there to see what animals are out there, because for me it's getting back to what life is all about, you know, at its core. Something I want to go back to and touch upon is that you talked about people who ,their work is their whole life, and I think in the last few years we've had a lot of people that that was their life and then all of a sudden that life was ripped away from them and it's a trauma event for them. I've been in that position before where my job was taken away and the shock and the adjustment period is so strange because you get up and there's no email to check, there's no one to text, there's no responsibility. But the beautiful thing is, once you get past that first 12, 24 hours, there's no pressure, right?
Rachel Arnold: 25:51
No pressure. I've done it too. I've had the same thing happen, exactly that initial shot, like this vacuum. It feels like your whole soul is being sucked out of your body because you're like, what now? Because your brain was rolling down all these checklists and you were on this path that was very well controlled. And you get up the next day and it's like, oh, who am I Like? You forget how to brush your teeth because there's no email to check while you're brushing your teeth. It's very strange. And so, having some of those hobbies and, and you know, having that kind of a balance where you do have something that is just yours, you do have something that is just yours, it's it's you. You keep yourself intact. But part of being able to blur that line for me at least, successfully showing up genuinely as my personal self and my professional life Um, I will talk to Jess about plants, right, right, I will bring that into the conversation. I have swapped cuttings and seeds with other people.
Jess Vachon: 27:09
I've not done that, but I should do that.
Rachel Arnold: 27:13
It's a lot of fun whenever you start. You know what, though? You got to be careful. Guard yourself a little bit, because if you kill the thing that your friend gave you, little bit, because if you kill the thing that your friend gave you, there's like this guilt level, that happens right.
Jess Vachon: 27:29
You have to put a disclaimer at the beginning saying you know, I thank you for this gift. I may kill it, but please don't take it personally. Exactly, I better knock on wood. I've been lucky in that the plants that I have. I'm a fairly good caretaker.
Jess Vachon: 27:44
But I think I have to do with the room. And then I have a secret ingredient which I'm not going to share here. If people want to know what it is, you have to subscribe to the podcast and then maybe I will tell you what my secret ingredient is, to keep my plants looking healthy.
Rachel Arnold: 27:57
You got to tell me later, because I already subscribed, Jess.
Jess Vachon: 28:01
I'll tell you I'll put it in the newsletter,
Rachel Arnold: 28:06
okay, good, good, yeah, make sure you put it in there, because I'm going to be taking notes on some stuff. But if you don't have that piece of your personality still in tow, right, you show up to work at least 40 hours a week. So are you telling me, for 40 hours a week, you're not being yourself? That's horrible. That's horrible. How awful for you. Either that or maybe you should get into theater, cause you're really good at developing characters but, like, how awful for you to show up 40 plus hours a week as somebody else.
Rachel Arnold: 28:39
I don't understand how people don't show up as their authentic selves every day, every minute. And also, you know, on the flip side of that, the only difference between me professionally and personally is the subject. It's a subject matter, that's it. It's just a context thing. The context that I speak in at work is work related, cybersecurity related, right, but those aren't the kind of conversations that I can go and easily have with. You know, my parents, I try, I we do, we go through it. You know they definitely call me whenever they've locked themselves out of their Humana account.
Rachel Arnold: 29:19
Yeah, Every week they're calling you.
Rachel Arnold: 29:28
Humana account. Yeah, every week they're calling you. Yeah, it's often Right, or friends or neighbors. They'll come to me or my husband, right? My husband also works in cybersecurity. It's a running joke that they call us to fix their printers.
Jess Vachon: 29:39
I want to announce to all relatives we hate printers as much as you do. Just don't buy them.
Rachel Arnold: 29:46
The only difference between anybody else and me is that I can follow instructions without getting upset. I like instructions, I'm interested, I'm that nerd. I will read privacy policies Like. I like lists and being able to follow them step by step. I'm also a pretty good cook because of that. So you guys want to swap out some some cuttings? I'll make you some banana bread and begrudgingly fix your printer. Please don't call me for your printer, though, but it's you know it, my husband's a principal slash lead security analyst. They're like can you fix my printer? I'm like oh man, that's a help desk thing, Come on.
Jess Vachon: 30:37
Oh, I don't know. I you know. I guess there's pros and cons to it. I like that the family still believes in my technical skills, which I try to keep up on, which, in the position I feel now, it's a little more challenging because it's more of a leadership role. But I want to go back to something you said about people showing up authentically as themselves. I do have an opinion on that.
Jess Vachon: 30:59
I think it's when people are working in an environment that they don't feel that they're trusted or that they're safe, it's very hard for them to show up authentically and we see that, I think, in how successful those groups are. It's a reflection on the leadership, it's a reflection on the organization and I think if you were to go and, say, interview or talk to someone who works at those companies, they would give you the real picture of what working in that organization is like. I think a lot of people find themselves trapped in those organizations and they don't know how to escape it, and or they've been in those organizations throughout their entire career. So they think that's how information, security and compliance is supposed to be, and it's not those of us who have escaped those types of environments and have found themselves in safe, trustworthy, supportive environments, know there's a better way to do it, and that's what feeds us to go to work and really excel. I feel sorry for people that are trapped in those circumstances, but how do you influence that? I think it's what we're doing now. We have conversations about authenticity, about showing up as our whole self, and then those of us that are doing that have to set that example and say there is a better way to do it.
Jess Vachon: 32:23
You can have feelings. As a leader, you're not supposed to be devoid of feelings. Your job as a leader is to be there one to complete the mission of the organization, but two to take care of the people. That, to me, is, and they're very close together. For me, I am all about. You know, training for the staff, showing who I am, admitting to my mistakes and saying sorry so that they know they can make mistakes and apologize, that there's a person that has their life because you do. You have their livelihoods in your hands. Uh, that that it's someone trustworthy that they can rely upon and they can come to me when they're in a bind because they won't always be in a bind in their work.
Jess Vachon: 33:15
They may be in a bind in their personal lives, and we need to find a way to navigate both of those.
Rachel Arnold: 33:21
Right, and how? How often is it that, um, people experiencing some hardships in their personal life, that comes to work with them? I know you're supposed to leave it at the door, but I I can't forget for eight, nine hours a day that, like my dad needs help because he's sick. You know, I can't forget that. I have three little kids in school that their teacher could call at any time, and I mean all three of them are neurodiverse.
Rachel Arnold: 33:57
It's better now that they're older, but when they were younger I did get phone calls that one of my kids was having like a nonverbal episode where they had just shut down and the teachers were scared, kind of thing, because they were just thousand miles. Stare, they didn't. The teachers weren't sure what they had done to trigger it and kind of thing. You know and and mommy has to go, or daddy, mommy or daddy has to go and and fix it. Like I can't, I can't forget those things.
Rachel Arnold: 34:29
Those are part of me that now. Does that mean that because I'm thinking about those things, I can't also divide off a part of myself to focus on the task at hand? Yeah, but it helps a whole hell of a lot whenever I have a leader or a mentor or coworker or teammate that can commiserate on those things with me, right, I don't need you to fix it for me, I just need you to listen, that's it. That's it. And tell me about a time that you could relate to me, so that I know that, on top of already worrying about these things, I also don't have to feel an anxiety about the anxiety, right, that it doesn't pile on, and that's.
Rachel Arnold: 35:14
I've been in environments where I think that that's very well done by the leadership. Secure Nation is a great example of that Our fearless leader and CEO, john Davis, and our CEO, kim McCarty. Every day, every morning, we banter a bit in our team's chats and talk about what kind of things are looking out. Today, john's got a bunch of kids that he's got to take care of too, and I do, and sometimes our know, sometimes our kids drive us crazy and sometimes we're just like, oh, and we'll share pictures with each other about you know, some stupid thing that the kids have done Exactly.
Jess Vachon: 35:52
And those are great things to celebrate, right? We shouldn't be celebrating that, hey, you're a whole person, you have a family, you do things outside of work, you're successful in doing those things. That's great. Those commonalities that we share, those events that we, you know, amplify and say that's great. That's, I think, makes teams so much stronger.
Jess Vachon: 36:16
But it's also about empowering staff and I think a lot of companies are afraid of that. You know, that's why people don't want universal healthcare, or that's why companies don't want universal healthcare, right, because it gives you a little bit of freedom. You're not so tied to that company. They don't want to have you have a personal life, because then they might have to give you some support, which they call accommodations for that. What is wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong. You know what I found I have almost 30 ish years in technology right when I took my hands off the staff, when I, when I gave flexibility to the team, when I supported everything they did, that came back over and over and over again, amplified right and I didn't do it because I wanted something back.
Jess Vachon: 37:06
I did it because I wanted them to be happy. I just you know, it's been a long time since I took psychology courses. But Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, if you satisfy those right, we all I think all of us learned that in school. You satisfy those basic needs, people take off. That is the difference between where humanity was thousands of years ago and now, as those needs got met and then people flourish. Why do we want to take that away? I don't know. It's counter to everything we have learned and as people and as an advancing society, we should be moving in a forward, growing, open-minded direction and not pointing back and saying, well, those were the good old days, they weren't good for everybody.
Jess Vachon: 37:49
They were good for very few people. So you know, in our own little ways that bring authenticity, that making room for mistakes, that supporting people's lives outside of work is super important for creating not just a better work environment but a better society as a whole.
Rachel Arnold: 38:08
Oh, definitely agree. I know I was not the most polite person whenever I was thrust into a toxic environment to everyone around me. Right, it's that ripple effect. Right, I'm the drop in the pond and I make the ripples ripple. Um, if I'm having a bad day, the ripples are bad. Right, they spread out. So if I'm having a great day and um, I mean, yeah, of course you control your your own destiny a lot in those situations, but there's only so much you can do.
Rachel Arnold: 38:37
Whenever you're thrust into a negative environment, you know to remain positive. I feel like I am a very positive, optimistic person. I was not positive nor optimistic at some points during my career in different industries, even Right, and those were not the times when I flourished. Those were not the times when the teams that I managed did well or had high sales or great customer feedback or anything else. Whenever, just like you said, whenever those top needs are met, you back away, right, set it down, watch it go, because it's going to go and be an amazing light for the face of your company. One, if they're interacting with you know customers or other businesses. Two, they're going to be great little productive things because all of those needs are being met.
Rachel Arnold: 39:31
And you're right, I don't understand. Maybe it's's, maybe it's a lack of education at the top and for all those listening in yes, I really did just call the whole like c-suite kind of dumb. Uh sorry, it can be true. In toxic environments they're pretty stupid, um, and it's a fear of other people figuring out how unintelligent they are. They make everyone else scared because they're scared, hurt people hurt people every time. It's just a fact. Think about it in every one of your interactions. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be on a micro or a macro level. Right, think about every time someone hurt you emotionally, physically, professionally, financially. It's because they were hurting first and they just spread it. That's it. And the type of people that do that have not taken the time to be introspective. They have not taken the time to, I don't know, journal, like, write your feelings down before you accidentally weaponize the wrong ones somewhere else. Right, like, let's not do that, but why not weaponize optimism and a positive outlook? It's really great. I think everybody should do it.
Jess Vachon: 40:56
It is. I love the point you just brought up, because in Buddhism we call that suffering right and everyone suffers in some way. A lot of people don't know they're suffering, they don't understand it and, exactly like you said, the way they think they alleviate that suffering is to make someone else suffer with them.
Rachel Arnold: 41:16
Right.
Jess Vachon: 41:16
Whether it's intentional or unintentional, and it's, you know, I think we're seeing that amplified right now, at least in the United States right, and it's confusing to a lot of people. Those people that are not like that, they understand they're suffering, they're very, you know, attached to other people, they're very magnanimous, they're very loving, they have empathy. It's scary and it doesn't make sense to those people. But we need to take a step back and take a breath and realize that not everyone has had our lived experience. Some people have had very different experiences. They've had trauma in their own way and they don't know how to navigate that.
Jess Vachon: 42:02
And and sometimes when someone shows up and says, oh, I can show you the way to do that, it's the, it's the point my fingers over here and over here and over here and points to the problems. It's not you, it's them. That to your point, is that leadership that hurts and doesn't understand productive ways to deal with, that isn't introspective, doesn't go to therapy because they think therapy is not appropriate for healthy people. Just for the record, I do it. I think I'm healthy and I think I'm relatively normal People may argue with that.
Jess Vachon: 42:40
I think everyone should have that as a basic healthcare need that's fulfilled.
Rachel Arnold: 42:45
I mean I just keep showing up whenever you ask me to. It's because you're a great human, so you're doing well.
Jess Vachon: 42:53
I try. At the end of the day, you know, and I shared this with my kids, we come into this world whether we want to or not. We should leave this world in a better place than we found it. It doesn't require giant strides, it just is, can be little steps. There's a saying "the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step right steps. There's a saying the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step right. So you can cover great distances if you're just taking the little steps that you need to take, and maybe that's all you can take.
Jess Vachon: 43:28
Maybe your plate is so full at the end of the day that the only thing you can do is maybe turn to your spouse and say I love you and I appreciate you, or you're saying it to someone you work with. I really appreciate what you did today. It helps me in these different ways little things that are meaningful, that are truthful, that change the current right, and we need to be doing that. You know, in a world that right now seems to be in total chaos and off the rails, we can still look forward and we can still make these, Um, I don't know what the opposite of microaggressions would be, but, uh, micro rebellions, I guess to change things in a more positive way.
Jess Vachon: 44:11
So yeah, um micro aggressive, micro aggressive Optimism no, yes, we'll figure it out and I'll post it out. We're winding down. This has been great. I want to make sure that you have an opportunity here, before we close out, to plug whatever you want to plug. So you have like 30 seconds. Go for it.
Rachel Arnold: 44:33
Excellent one, Thank you, Jess, for having me. I'm going to plug your show. If you're listening to it and you found it find it again, Do it again, so go subscribe. Second of all, I also host a live stream on a weekly basis, normally on Fridays in the middle of the day, called The Coffee Table Talks. You can look me up on YouTube at the Human API , all one word. Or you can look me up on LinkedIn at the human API all one word. Or you can look me up on LinkedIn and go follow that secure nation page for stream updates. So we have a guest on this week Cassidy Trond from tech systems. She's going to be awesome and we're looking forward to having her.
Jess Vachon: 45:13
Everyone go check it out, rachel. Thank you. We'll have you on again because this was a great conversation. Everyone go support Rachel. Go out there, be good people, have a good day, Rachel. Thank you again.
Rachel Arnold: 45:27
Yeah, of course.
